贾庆国教授现任北京大学中外人文交流研究基地主任、教授。2024年3月11日，中国两会结束后，贾教授接受了《中美聚焦》的采访。

我上次采访贾庆国教授是在疫情期间，当时我们和杰出的美国学者傅高义交流——他在采访后不久就离世了。通过今天的对话，我了解到开放性沟通背后的力量和价值。正如贾教授所说，开放性沟通可以在信任缺失的时候建立信任。

—周建成

周建成：

贾庆国教授，非常感谢您接受本次采访。每年这个时候，北京都是人大和政协这两个重要政治会议的舞台，而您又是政协常务委员。现在，两会已经结束。为什么两会如此重要，世界各地的人们为何应该关注今年的两会？

贾庆国:

两会之所以具有重大影响，部分原因在于中国是一个正在迅速崛起的大型经济体。中国的一举一动都会对世界产生影响。中国以外的很多人都感受到了这个国家的变化带来的影响。今年的两会讨论了很多政策问题，提出了很多想法。若你能观察两会，你就可以更好地了解中国现在的动态。世界上很多人都关注两会，这不仅仅是出于好奇，也因为这些会议与他们的利益息息相关。

周建成：

我们刚才提到，您不仅是著名学者，还是政协常委。今年的会议上，您提交了两项提案，一是促进人文交流，二是吸引更多国际学生来华。这些似乎都很重要，但许多人可能在想：当面对经济增长和创造就业等压力的时候，这些事情还重要吗？

贾庆国:

经济增长和创造就业非常重要，这也可能是今年两会最热的话题。同时我认为，向世界解释中国当前正在发生的事情，鼓励更多外国学生来华学习也很重要。中国一直在快速发展，正处于大国向强国或者说超级大国转变的过程。所以，这段时间很多人都关心中国未来会有何举动，以及是否有相应的能力。他们很担心。而且，现在也在讨论“修昔底德陷阱”。在这个关键的历史节点，中国需要向世界更好地解释自己的变化，讲好中国故事，平息此类担忧和恐惧。

讲好正在发生的中国故事也有利于中国经济。应该让世界各国了解中国当前的情况，这能减少它们的担忧，鼓励中国与美国及其他国家更好地互动。

让更多外国学生来华学习对中国来说非常重要。我们需要更多的外国人了解中国。我们需要经验丰富的中国通，向他们国家的人民解释中国正在发生的事情。这些年轻人是世界未来的领导人。很多中国学生在海外学习，但我们需要更多的外国学生来到中国。他们需要相互了解，了解彼此的国家，将来才可以更好地处理我们的关系。长远来看，这对经济非常有利。我们要帮助更多的人相互理解，促进贸易和经济关系，造福各国。

周建成：

我们刚才提到讲述中国故事，为的是增进开放、沟通和理解。您认为有人能讲好中国故事吗？在当前的环境下，他们是否愿意这么做呢？

贾庆国:

很多人有能力，而且头脑冷静、理性、务实。他们能讲好中国故事。中国故事非常复杂，涉及很多方面。我们需要的不仅仅是几个人讲述中国故事，我们还需要人文交流，鼓励各行各业的人员互相交流，更全面地了解中国正在发生的事情。当然，在这个过程中，专家学者和退休官员可以发挥更大的作用。因此，在我的一项提案里，我提出需要鼓励这些人的参与，而不是限制这些参与交流的人。

周建成：

中美领导人加州会晤已经过去四个月了，相当于一年的1/3。许多人在问：会晤以后，两国关系是否发生了根本性的改变或者改善？贾教授，说到加州会晤以及旧金山愿景，您认为现在怎么做才能让这一愿景成为现实？

贾庆国:

加州会晤过后，发生了很多事情。两国加快了重新接触的进程。也就是说，两国不同级别的官员参与了会晤。这两个大国之间的关系不能由两个人管理，不能仅仅是国家元首，它需要很多人共同管理。这是旧金山会议精神的内容之一。

除了重新接触之外，我们还看到两国对各种问题进行了认真讨论。两国成立了工作组，讨论不同问题，寻找存在共同利益以及可以合作的领域。双边关系比以前更加稳定，正朝着正确的方向发展。然而，不信任感仍然很深，国内政治中仍然敌对情绪浓厚，尤其是美国。

最近，美国国会一直在审议禁止TikTok的法案，体现了两国关系的不信任情绪及其政治化。未来，我认为两国应继续奉行重新接触的政策，并努力在拥有共同利益的领域开展合作，包括继续推动全球治理和应对各种全球挑战。当然，这些行动面临很多不确定性。不确定性的最主要来源之一是当前的美国总统选举。如果特朗普当选，我认为两国的发展很可能出现消极变化。

周建成：

贾庆国教授，上次采访您是在好几年前。希望不久的将来您能再给我一次采访机会。非常感谢您今天分享的见解。

贾庆国:

谢谢。我同样期待今后的采访。

Professor Jia Qingguo is Director and Professor of the Institute for Global Cooperation and Understanding, Peking University. This interview with him is conducted on March 11, 2024 just after the closing of the Two Sessions in Beijing.

The last time I interviewed Professor Jia Qingguo was during the pandemic in conversation with the great American scholar Ezra Vogel, who died shortly after that interview. What I take away from today's conversation is the power and value of open communications, which can build trust at a time when trust, as Jia says, is sadly absent.

— James Chau

James Chau:

Professor Jia Qingguo, thanks very much for this interview today. Around this time every year, Beijing is center stage for two key political meetings: the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, of which you are a standing committee member. Those meetings have now concluded. Why are they significant and why should people around the world care about this year's outcomes?

Jia Qingguo:

They have significant impact in part because of the fact that China is a huge economy that is rising rapidly. Whatever China does has an impact on the rest of the world. A lot of people outside China feel the impact of changes in China. During these two sessions, a lot of policy issues are discussed. A lot of ideas are floated. If you watch what's going on, you get a better sense of what's going on in China. So a lot of people in the world are paying attention to the two sessions, and it's not just out of curiosity. It's because the meetings are relevant to their respective interests.

James Chau:

As we said earlier, you're not just a renowned scholar but also a Standing Committee member of the CPPCC. At this year's session, you submitted two proposals — one to drive people-to-people contacts and the other to draw more international students to China. That may seem important, but many people may be thinking, how important are these when you also look at the landscape of pressures, such as economic growth and job creation?

Jia Qingguo:

Economic growth and job creation are very important, and probably the most heated topics of this year's sessions. At the same time, I think explaining to the world what's going on in China and encouraging more students from other countries to come study in China is also very important. China has been developing rapidly and has been in the process of a transition — a large country to a strong country, or to a superpower. So during this period of time a lot of people have been concerned about what China will do and if it has the capacity. They are worried. So you have this Thucydides trap argument. But at this juncture, China needs to explain to the world better about what's going on in the country and tell China's story to assuage such concerns and fears.

Telling a good story about what's going on in China is also good for China's economy. Let the rest of the world understand what's going on in China. That would lower the level of concerns and also encourage better interactions between the United States and China, or between China and the rest of the world.

Getting more students from other countries to study in China is also very important for this country. We need more people in other countries to understand China. We need experienced China hands to explain to their own people what's going on in China. These young people are the future leaders of the world. A lot of Chinese students are overseas, but we need more foreign students to come to China. They get to know each other and each other's countries, and then in the future, I think they can better manage our relationship. It's also very good for the economy in the long run. We'll have more people who understand each other and help trade and economic relations that will bring benefits to both countries.

James Chau:

We talk about telling the story of China to elevate openness, communication and understanding. Do you think there are people out there who are able to tell the story of China, and is there a willingness to tell that story in this current climate?

Jia Qingguo:

There are a lot of people who are capable and also level-minded, rational and pragmatic. And they can tell a good story about China. In China, the story is very complex. It involves a lot of aspects. We need not just a few people to tell this story about China. We also need people-to-people exchanges, to encourage people in different walks of life to talk to each other so that they can get a more comprehensive picture of what's going on in China while, of course in the process the experts, scholars and former officials can play a larger role. So in one of my proposals, I argue that we need to encourage these people instead of restricting those who engage in this kind of process.

James Chau:

Four months have passed since the leaders of the United States and China met in California. That's a third of the year, basically. And a lot of people are asking whether anything has fundamentally shifted or improved since that time. Professor Jia, when you think about California, and what the San Francisco vision promises, what must happen now to make that vision a reality?

Jia Qingguo:

Quite a few things have happened since then. The two countries have stepped up the reengagement process. In other words, officials of the two countries at different levels are meeting each other. These are two big countries whose relationship cannot be run by two people — not just the presidents. They need to be run by a lot of people. That's part of the spirit of the San Francisco meeting.

In addition to reengagement, we also see a process of serious discussions on various kinds of issues. The two countries have set up working groups to discuss different issues and to try and find areas where we share interests and can cooperate. The relationship has also become more stable than it used to be. It's moving in the right direction. However, the distrust is still deep, and domestic politics are still quite hostile, especially in the U.S..

Recently, the U.S. Congress has been deliberating a bill to ban TikTok, symbolizing the distrust and politicization of the relationship. In the days to come, I think the two countries should continue to pursue the policy of reengagement and try to cooperate on areas of shared interest, including greater efforts to help shape global governance and the global response to various kinds of challenges. But of course, there are a lot of uncertainties in the efforts to do so.One of the most significant sources of uncertainty is the current U.S. presidential election. If Trump gets elected, I think the current cause of development will probably change in a negative way, more likely than not.

James Chau:

Professor Jia Qingguo, it has been years since I've interviewed you, and I hope that you'll give me the opportunity to do so again in the near future. Thank you very much as always for your important insights.

Jia Qingguo:

Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

(The foregoing was lightly edited for clarity.)